Kyle Rayner: What We Found
Disclaimer
This is not a ‘counterfeit’ to the GL Cosmology Blog, nor is this part of an arms race to try and get Kyle ahead of Simon. We had this planned out well into the beginning of the matches announcement on the kickstarter. Was it planned before Kirb’s blog? We don't know but this has always been in the works, so please do not think this is out of spite for anyone. It isn’t.
Some of the people who helped with this document do have disagreements with the Gurren Lagann blog, all of which they formed separate of any influence from anyone else. There are just disagreements on some of the higher end arguments, the overall tiering system (old vs new), among other things. But this blog is not a reflection of any of this as we all went into this with clean, objective slates. Regardless of what you walk away agreeing or disagreeing with, keep in mind that this doesn’t even mean we think Kyle wins the entire match, because we are all well aware there is far more to this debate than who can outbox each other’s dimensions.
Another reminder, this is merely a document talking about Kyle’s own attack potency and overall cosmology and the scaling avenues associated with him. This was definitely more inspired by how Kirbonic structured his document so big shout outs to him, but regardless we did deepdive Kyle with the hopes to use all of his information when the time comes for the G1 blog. In our eyes, this is by far the most contentious and unknown part of the debate, and for a while lots of people have said that Kyle has no arguments at all because nobody knows where he scales. Hopefully, this can finally be put to rest.
If you think that this blog is anti-climatic and lacks a satisfying conclusion, then we don’t know what to tell you. Kyle is a very difficult character to scale due to the context surrounding his best feats both as a Green and White Lantern, and trying to find avenues or make any scaling chain wasn’t just some quick decision, we went through everything we possibly could.
Special thanks to MomoUra, Guruguru, Yerm, Minato, Akhil, Spirit, ThiccGrimes, Yuix, and 08 for helping read the comics and Garf, Flip, SirusStuff, and Lolhorsebagel for the art.
Direct Comparisons
Green Lantern
First, let’s just show some ‘mid ends’ of Kyle doing well against his fellow heavy hitters.
-In JLA #56, Wally said that if Kyle wasn’t stopped, he would kill Wonder Woman in a matter of time. Kyle at this time was being controlled by a white martian. Earlier in the comic, Plastic Man said Kyle, Wonder Woman, and Flash were the only people capable of holding off the white martians at the time.
-In Green Lantern Vol 3 #97, Kyle defeated Grayven, one of the sons of Darkseid after previously losing to him. Grayven should be well above most New Gods, who Mister Miracle observed to be capable of creating and twisting universes into shape. Pretty good Universal+ scaling here.
Kyle has faced other prominent New Gods. In Green Lantern Vol. 3 #61, Kyle knocks out Kalibak, the son of Darkseid.
Now, let’s show Kyle’s showings against high tier Lanterns and Lantern adjacent enemies.
-In Green Lantern #46, Kyle, along with the other three Earth Lanterns, fight off Guardians of the Universe while possessed by the Emotional Entities, with Kyle himself directly holding off Parallax. The Guardians of the Universe:
Have been stated by Xena to have the power of eradicating all universes, which is consistent with many of their other showings of power.
In Green Lantern (2005) #25, the Guardians of the Universe fought back against Sinestro Corps War Anti-Monitor
Ganthet’s shield could hold against the Big Bang
The Guardians and the Controllers are stated to have Big Bang level power
Kyle has many other showings against the Parallax entity, and even says outright in Green Lantern Corps #53 that he is the man who beat Parallax (and Mongul). The Parallax Entity is so powerful that even the Spectre (Crispus Allen) is afraid of his power, and Parallax possessing Hal once again in Green Lantern #51 ragdolled Black Lantern Spectre. Despite being no Jim Corrigan, the Phantom Stranger said this version of the Spectre could destroy ‘everything’ if left unchecked.
-In Justice League of America Vol. 2 #47, Kyle Rayner is sent by the Guardians of the Universe to kill Starheart Alan Scott, whom they perceive as a threat. For context, the Starheart is a much different ring, being the collective magic gathered by the Oans that was meant to be cast out of the universe, and it's so powerful that Alan with the Starheart would obliterate all of reality.
-During Secret Files and Origins: Guide to the DC Universe (2000) #1, Kyle defeats Amazo 2000, an upgraded model with the powers of the Justice League, Teen Titans, Shazam Family, Flash Family, and more.
Oh also he fought this guy that like, nobody has ever heard of.
New Feat
In the Zero Hour 30th Anniversary Special, it establishes that an aspect of Parallax Hal was created the moment he was defeated during Zero Hour - One that made & sustained a universe called the Splinterverse for decades; which is similar to the Post-Crisis universe, but with various notable alterations. Moreover, this aspect of Parallax Hal was functioning on a significantly smaller scale compared to the true version. As Parallax Hal's power waned, the Splinterverse began to collapse, triggering an Oblivion Effect that surged through the boundaries of space and time, erasing all of existence - including the JSA, Legion of Super-Heroes, and Apokolips. Wally of the Splinterverse likened the Oblivion Wave to a crisis-level catastrophe, while both Kyle and Waverider emphasized that it would inevitably spread to the prime Multiverse, threatening to annihilate it as well.
Parallax Hal [Splinterverse] went to great lengths to acquire Kyle's Power Ring. By drawing on its power and magnifying it a millionfold - the weakened Parallax aspect of Hal Jordan gained enough strength to seize control of the Oblivion Wave and redirect it. When Kyle regained his ring, Oblivion overtook the entire Splinterverse, and would have erased the entire Multiverse.
White Lantern
There are a surprising few feats that can be documented in Kyle’s time as a White Lantern. Volthoom, the First Lantern, tells Kyle in Green Lantern: New Guardians #17 that Kyle was a genuine threat to the Guardians of the Universe from when he first mastered all of his emotions, which is pretty much around the time he became a White Lantern in the first place. This is backed up by the fact that 11 issues prior in #3, Kyle, when harnessing all of the emotions not as a White Lantern, was able to fight the Guardians and repel their attacks, and an issue later fought Ganthet on even grounds as well. And in #16, Ganthet ran away scared of White Lantern Kyle. Now, Kyle is on par if not superior to the Guardians when before as a Green Lantern, the argument was more so that he would at most be able to keep up.
In Green Lantern: New Guardians #40, Kyle Rayner has to fight Oblivion, a being created by Kyle himself when reality was warped. Oblivion is quite the threat, being capable of destabilizing reality, and Kyle Rayner was able to match and defeat Oblivion.
Not too bad overall, but this begs the obvious question of “ok what does this all mean? What feats do these other characters have, what are its implications, and where would that put Kyle scaling-wise?” Let’s talk about who else he could scale too, and what the overall cosmology Kyle scales to in the DC Universe would be.
Scaling Candidates
Nekron
Nekron is without a doubt the most powerful Lantern out there, but can you argue Kyle to be on par with his power? Kinda. The easiest justification for this is that the White Life Entity, the original White Lantern, is equal to Nekron. Nekron was able to harm the WL Entity in Blackest Night #7, which affected all life, and in the next issue, White Lantern Sinestro was able to physically contend with Nekron with ease, and a replenished Anti-Monitor from the WL Entity was able to counteract Nekron’s attack. Though Nekron needed to be defeated by severing his link to the mortal realm by making Black Hand mortal again, that was only to ensure Nekron could not resurrect again, as the White Lantern Corps was able to obliterate Nekron just as much as Sinestro was able to previously. Kyle, also being powered as a White Lantern, should be comparable to this type of power. But this is only the Black Lantern Nekron; can Kyle scale to the true Nekron, the Land of the Unliving?
This argument is somewhat less likely, at least off of true form Nekron. As stated before, Nekron cannot naturally exist in this universe, and his power is greatly diminished within it. To truly interact with the living world, he needs a connection between New Earth and the Land of the Unliving - either a rift in space-time or a mortal anchor like Black Hand. This means his Earthly avatars are significantly weaker than his true form in the World of the Unliving, but still incredibly impressive as…
Nekron was able to kill Volthoom, the First Lantern with a single swipe of his scythe
Ignored a beam attack from a newly resurrected White Lantern-powered Anti-Monitor
Dark Multiverse Nekron is the direct opposite of the Life Equation and his word is the Anti-Life Equation (more in the Anti-Life Equation segment)
Despite seeming like a different version of the character, it isn’t. All Nekrons that interact with the living realm are mere aspects of the true Nekron that we cannot properly comprehend.
The Anti-Life Equation
This one is far more blatant and easy to justify. While we could just say “dude it's literally called the Life and Anti-Life Equation why would they not be equals”, we’ll give some scans just in case. In God’s Godhead, Highfather says that with the Life Equation, it will be the perfect counter to the Anti-Life Equation, should Darkseid ever get his hands on it, and Highfather praises it as a weapon that can shape ‘all of existence’. The Anti-Life Equation is incredibly powerful on its own as well, and provides a lot of power beyond control on a universal scale. When Mister Miracle became the Anti-Life Equation, he fought Infinity Man in a battle so powerful and deadly, they destroyed the Source Wall together. Darkseid stated that with the Anti-Life Equation, he would also be able to control the Source. On the flipside, the Source is considered the antithesis to Dark Multiverse Nekron, who wielded the Anti-Life Equation.
But I may hear you say, “Isn’t Kyle not the best at even using the Life Equation? Why would he scale to any of its best feats?” It’s a little bit complicated.
This is true only at first. Kyle struggled to use the power directly most of the time, and while he had a lot of impressive feats such as making Source Wall travel possible in Green Lantern: New Guardians #35, lots of it is reality warping he did and was mostly unaware of, such as the accidental creation of Oblivion. After reclaiming the Life Equation from Highfather in Annual #3, Kyle shows much better demonstrations and precision with the Life Equation, such as banishing the Source Titans back to the Source Wall with ease. And in #40 of Green Lantern: New Guardians, Kyle eventually defeats Oblivion, his terrifying counterpart, by strategically breaking up the Life Equation into a White Lantern Corps which never gets used again fuck you DC that go on to defeat Oblivion.
Now this could also be used as a potential argument; Kyle willingly gave up the Life Equation due to expressing fear that he will become a monster like Oblivion that will be a threat to all he loves, so why should he get it or be considered someone that can access its full power? Because the Guardians outright say that the Life Equation will always be intrinsically tied to Kyle; he was the one who went into the Source, made Source Wall travel possible, and unlocked the Life Equation at large, and because of that he cannot have this power taken away unlike a normal Lantern ring bearer. Kyle even says when creating the White Lantern Corps in the scan that if needed to, the LE can be brought back together if things get really bad, which is in line with the Guardians saying in Annual #3 that the Life Equation is such a great power that is beyond even a god like Highfather. We also see what would’ve happened if Kyle kept the Life Equation for himself. Kyle, five years later in Futures End, became one with the Source when he had the Life Equation, but it clearly took a toll on him. So it is a case of Kyle should logically be capable of harnessing the full Life Equation, but there seems to be numerous costs that can hurt him, such as reality warping creating things that were not meant to be created (Oblivion); the Guardians even tell Kyle that if he remains in sole control of the Life Equation, he will be obliterated.
Overall, this unfortunately leaves us with the only possible avenue being that Kyle’s reality warping with the Life Equation is at the level of the Source. If he was able to ‘accidentally’ warp the Source code itself, make Source Wall travel possible, and do many other things, one can only imagine what sort of reality warping he can do that isn’t accidental, but in overall raw power it’s way harder to argue that Kyle can really muster up the ability to use it to power up like past users have, since he needed to split it up since it was destroying him and everyone around him.
Where Kyle’s Scaling Fits In The Cosmology
With the Bleed [Bleedspace] serving as the interstitial membrane between these universes; existing as a massive time-space detached from orthodox space-time, rotating across the axis of the Fifth Dimension. The proposition of infinite [mathematical] dimensions has been posited, but these claims crumble when subjected under the weight of scrutiny. Still, DC boasts a considerable hierarchy of numbered dimensions - six, eight, ten, eleven [M-Theory and membranes], twelve & a third, fourteen, nineteen, and more.
We’ve also been recently introduced to N-dimensional constructs, and a cosmological schema of dimensions, derived from Wally West’s interference patterns as he traversed through realms, known as the 'SpectraVerse'; comprising ten, eleven, or twenty-six distinct vibrational frequencies. These frequencies represent layered planes of existence, with the SpectraVerse itself being a resonant dimensional oscillation that grants access to different strata. Conceptualized as various 'frequencies' or 'angles' of Earth-0, this model supports the notion that all universes occupy the same spatial-temporal continuum but resonate on disparate frequencies. While each 'level' is inhabited by distinct lifeforms, the inanimate structures and objects remain largely consistent across most of these dimensions.
On average, this is likely where Green Lantern Kyle about scales too; he’s faced down plenty of threats such as the Guardians of the Universe and Emotional Entities, many of whom are threats to the wider DC Multiverse, and his showings against his fellow Justice League heavy hitters such as Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and the Flash should also give reason to place him around Multiversal+-Complex Multiversal.
Beyond these tangible realms lies the Sphere of the Gods - a plane of existence distinct from the material world. Forged from the very essence of belief, the deities here endure solely because mortals ascribe to their power; their existence is bound to the faith of the people, and should that belief ever wane, they would cease to exist. The Sphere of the Gods itself is sculpted and shaped by the collective thoughts and imaginations of mortals, a realm woven from the threads of human conviction. Birthing all spiritual and godly energy in the Multiverse. Myrra is a secluded domain within the Sphere of the Gods; an abstract “metaphorical realm” where all things are conscious, existing solely as the embodiments of ideas. Unlike the conventional, tangible universes, this plane does not adhere to the laws of 'reality' as we know them; rather, it thrives as a mystical conception, a realm shaped entirely by the arcane forces of thought and imagination. Denizens of the Sphere of the Gods are not mere beings, but living ideations - manifestations of self-aware concepts, wielding the power of abstraction and metaphor as instruments of their will.
At the edge of all things resides the Monitor Sphere. Enshrouded by the Fifth Dimension, the very lifeblood of the multiverse. A “higher plane of existence” and “god-like dimension”; pervading every corner of existence while simultaneously enveloping the entirety of creation - spanning across all points in time, unfettered by the constraints of linear chronology.
It resides within the Source Wall - the “very limit of the multiverse”, the “end of the universe”, the “edge of reality”, and a “seemingly infinite” barrier at the edge of the multiverse. It is a place that is beyond all known time and space and spans across all dimensions.
Atop this hierarchy exists the Sixth Dimension, the echelon where the omniverse - comprising infinite multiverses of dark, positive, and antimatter realms - unfolds within an infinite realm of infinite possibility.
Here, exists a mysterious conceptual realm within the Speed Force, known as the 'Garden of Shadows' or the 'Gallery of Moments.' Situated beyond the Source Wall, beneath the very fabric of reality, deeper than space and time itself, it is a place where thought and expression converge as one. This is the Speed Force [the Deep Change] - a cosmic force that reverberates through every corner of time and space. It resides in a realm beyond realms [a space of non-existence] where it conceived the very essence of concepts like Time - an omnipresent force from which all things emanate. Perceiving all under it as mere fiction; nothing, but a dream of the Source.
The Source is the quintessence of “non-dual omni-awareness” from “the beyond”, and exists as the axis mundi of the omniverse. It is the all and beyond the all. Felt across all of Creation. Being the very canvas where the story is written into.
With the higher realms of the DC Map such as the Sphere of Gods, Source Wall, and the Source, it gets somewhat trickier to try and land where Kyle scales too without the Life Equation due to a severe lack of feats. You can only really make scaling chains and possible inferences. The most direct statement is being a genuine threat to the Guardians of the Universe, but by feats there isn’t anything putting them on such a degree of power as that of something like the Sphere of Gods, except for maybe Ganthet being a member of the Quintessence, the highest order of beings in the Multiverse on a level of the Sphere of Gods due to the inclusion of Highfather (other members include Spectre, Wizard Shazam, and the Phantom Stranger), and Kyle when trying to just master the Emotional Spectrum made Ganthet quite scared of his power, suggesting the overall power of Kyle’s Emotional Spectrum usage to be very potent, but we don’t really see Ganthet acting as a Quintessence member until much later when Perpetua was a looming threat, so you can maybe argue against Ganthet being that powerful on average at the time of his fight with Kyle. At the very least, it would be consistent with the kind of power Highfather sees in the Emotional Spectrum, wanting to harness it alongside the Life Equation to stop Darkseid.
Besides that, you can at most argue White Lantern Kyle scales above base Parallax Hal using Kyle’s ring to stop the Sphere of Gods threatening Oblivion Wave, but Hal did amplify the ring a millionfold to do this. Does this mean GL Kyle would downscale but WL Kyle would upscale? It's hard to really say. There isn’t any indication that the White Lantern form is an extremely massive buff or amp that is eons and light-years ahead of his Green Lantern form. Sure, you can use the case of White Lantern Sinestro vs Nekron, but there’s also some moments where it can feel contradicted, such as the Guardian named Sayd expressing a lack in confidence that White Lantern Kyle can beat Larfleeze, and seemingly weaker lanterns like Green Lantern Sinestro can keep up with Kyle. This type of scaling isn’t the most reliable, especially when we lack a lot of clarification or evidence for just how powerful this White Lantern makes Kyle compared to his Green Lantern form.
Before I go into the next paragraph I’ll quickly summarize what a Reality>Fiction Transcendence (R>F) is since that is what we’ll talk about next; an R>F transcendence simply means a state of being where someone is qualitatively, not quantitatively, above another in such a way that it views that world, universe, or cosmology as fiction, being more “real” then it, thus being in a higher tier of power and existence. You can learn more about it here.
Kyle with the Life Equation on the other hand is a lot more arguable, albeit this would only really apply to his reality warping for reasons we’ve already talked about above. Kyle manipulating the Source code, becoming one with it in five years, and being a power so great that Highfather on his own could not replicate it is absolutely grounds for being at the level of the Source, which has an R>F transcendence over the wider DC cosmology due to the likes of the Deep Change and perceiving it as fictitious. But there are some caveats with this line of thinking. The big one of course is Kyle himself shows no real signs of being someone that perceives everything in a lower dimensional way, otherwise he wouldn’t be affected by damn near anything that comes near him. VS Battle Wiki recently talked about a change within their criteria for R>F, essentially saying that it doesn’t make sense for a dimensional character to physically have R>F power, and this would apply to Kyle as well (and Simon for that matter). If Kyle is truly able to affect a cosmological structure with an R>F gap, is that really an R>F gap to begin with? Is Kyle magically made less fictional than the realms he resides in, or is it simply not an R>F transcendence to begin with? Because a fictional character affecting something that should perceive that character as fiction isn’t really an R>F gap at all.
That being said, you could still qualify Kyle Rayner’s potency with reality warping as Outerversal. With the Life Equation, he’d be at a level already comparable to the Sphere of Gods, an archetypal “realer than real” realm, which is still encompassed within the Source.
Conclusion
Unfortunately, we aren’t really sure where to put White Lantern Kyle Rayner without the Life Equation; his lack of feats, comparisons, and statements means you can only try to make as much inferences as possible until you reach the realm of guesswork and assumptions. We’ll have to look more into this when the time comes for the G1 blog.
Kyle Rayner with the Life Equation on the other hand can reach Outerversal level via reality warping with the Source, being a power well above that of New Gods like Highfather and being able to affect and warp the Source code itself, though not in such a way that he has an R>F transcendence over his enemies.
Again, if you find this unsatisfying or anti-climatic, this was the best we could think of and come up with while being objective and reasonable. But Kyle does not have a lot of information, given this is a form he only really had a few years as a White Lantern, much less so when he had the Life Equation. But, we certainly tried. We hope you can at least appreciate that.
Good luck to Simon in the Death Battle by the way!
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